I have a question, oh flist...

[tabaqui]

Or perhaps it's a rant. I dunno. Anyway. Reading some nice, long big bang fics. And it's wonderful to get good, meaty stories. Wonderful! But...

Is it just me? And it's possible, but...is it just me who gets really, really tired of the 'find one true love, date/hang out with/have sex with one true love, have some massive fight/misunderstanding/freakout, lose one true love, pine for days/months/years over lost love, reconnect and live happily ever after' story line? I mean... Yes, okay. Stories need, apparently, some kind of 'angst' or 'drama' or.....whatever. But...it all seems so *contrived*, and not in the good way.

If i was madly in love, and suddenly my best friend said 'oh, by the way, your soul mate was mackin' on so and so at this party'... My first impulse would *not* be to move out and not talk to them for six months. My *first* impulse would be to confront them, find out the whole story, and *then* decide on what to do.

Am i too boringly practical for fiction? Am i just a spoilsport? I dunno. I'm stuck in one of the original things i'm writing right now because...i don't have any *drama!* . I just don't have some...big, dark, secret from the past *gag*, or some horrible sin or *whatever* to make a big...thing...happen in the story. Why *can't* Tod and London just hang out and be in love and figure out some things? Why does there *have* to be omg!angst! and such?
*sigh*

Tell me, flist, if i am just a dork or *what*, 'cause....i just dunno. Not that i'm hatin' on the stories with this sort of theme, but sometimes i just wish it could go down different.


And, 'cause rahmi did it and i suddenly got the mad urge to lemming her...
*seriously not for dial-up image below*






Normally, there would also be a little tab for my Yahoo chat window that says 'sweptawaybayou', but she's already in bed.


Now, i'm off to vegetate in front of the tv for a little bit. :)

Comments

[riani1.livejournal.com]

That's why I like stories where part of the drama is confirming that the true love will last, ie, there is ongoing outside peril taht threatens the lovers' security. I hate stories where no one double checks stories or never blessed TALK to each other! "If you loved me you'd know why I was pissed!" is not plot development.

[tabaqui]

HA! Exactly. That sort of thing doesn't fly in real life, either,and if we're doing RPS or even something like Buffy or SPN, it's close enough to real life that it won't fly in *those* stories, either.

Maybe that's why i like case fic best. Put the first-time or even the *established* relationship in there as plot b, but give me something to sink my teeth into!
:)

[thismaz.livejournal.com]

Big bang fics refer to a fandom, not to orgies or the creation of the universe, yes? *g*
There are a set of basic story lines and your description is the the bare bones of the teen angst/woman's mag/Mills & Boon/Harlequin romance. If I read any basic story line too often, it becomes boring, just like I get bored with some food because I eat it too often and then I don't want to touch it for months.
But often the reason it becomes boring is because it is just the basic story line. If the characters don't feel real, if they don't got through the action because it is what they would do, true to themselves, then yes, it feels contrived and that is quickly boring.
So no, practical people also exist in the world, so they should be able to exist in stories.
Good luck.

[tabaqui]

*snerk*
Nope, no orgies or universe start-ups. Heh.

Oh, i know that it's a archetype storyline, i just...yes. Sometimes it's just too jr. high, or As the World Turns, or whatever, when the evol, scheming 'friend' is instantly believed over the 'soul mate'. Makes me wanna scream. Or! The 'i'm not worthy' thing that's just so over the top *nobody* could believe....
:)

[realtsunamigirl.livejournal.com]

Cute pic!

Is it just me, or does the Bebe look more and more like River Tam all the time?

I am totally with you. I just can't understand the concept of not talking to your partner, it just seems so contrived to me. I maintain a strict policy of not getting really mad at anyone until I have talked to them. Then the first question I ask them is "Are you alright?", followed by, "Is everyone else okay?" If the answer is yes, then, and only then, so I get mad at them. Which is expressed by telling them why I'm mad, how I came about the information that made me mad and asking for an explanation.

The downside is that if they don't have a good excuse, I am then freaking *furious*, but those two questions have saved me some serious embarassment in the past when someone had had to go to the hospital or had a serious emergency.

Buffy (the show) especially irritates me because the characters seem to lack the most basic of communication skills. I realise that this makes for more interesting plot points, but as a huiman I find myself yelling at the screen a lot.

[tabaqui]

Thank you!
Hehe. She does, a bit. It's the hair, i think. Perhaps the eyes. She certainly babbles like River....
:)

YES! I always want to *know*. If you're pissed at me - tell me *why*! Maybe i'm being an idiot, or obtuse, or whatever, but *tell me*, so we can deal with it. Sullen silences or running away or 'i don't wanna talk' type stuff is just...

In rl and in fic, it makes me wanna pick up a two-by and get swingin'.

Oh, Buffy annoyed the *fuck* out of me along those lines, especially the whole 'i'm fine' type crap that was *obviously* a lie and yet...everyone just shrugged and moved on. Way to actually care about your friend, people!

[cattraine.livejournal.com]

My fav Big bang fics so far have been the nice build up to love ones--Open Night at the Fremont, Come Play With Me, and In His Hand...the ones where they actually get to know each other.
The plot line you mentioned is the kind I usually skim over and end up ignoring in favor of those stories where they actually talk to each other.

[tabaqui]

Hehe. Yes. If i'm reading something interesting, and suddenly it's all 'oh, well, he said blah blah, it's over!!' I'm just left gaping. And annoyed. Communication is the *only* thing that'll keep a long-term relationship going, unless you're just going to be casual 'buddies' forever, with no depth or feelings.

[realtsunamigirl.livejournal.com]

Sorry, got wicked off topic there. Having a brain-fried day.

Yes, I find that plot line really tiresome. I also find its sister plot, stories that are entirely about two characters getting to know each other and falling in love, really boring. I mean the ones that have no other plot going on, the ones that are entirely about a couple falling for each other. If they're well written and periiodically idiosunchratic, they can hold my attention, but I generally find them forgettable.

People seem to forget that characters and relationships are important, but that stories need to be driven by some kind of *plot* to be really interesting. I blame James Joyce.

[tabaqui]

Oh, it's fine. :)

I don't *mind* the 'first time' type stories, but they *are* more interesting if there's another plot attached, like case fic or whatever.

Heeee. I've never read Mr. Joyce. I've often wondered if i should.

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

FWIW, I think the problem with that plotline isn't so much the plot itself as the execution - I've read lots of satisfying fics with that story arc, but other fics fail because the author doesn't come up with a plausible reason for why the misunderstanding/fight couldn't have been resolved more simply. So, point being, I think that general arc can work, it's just that you need a good reason for the breakup; too many authors rely on a fairly mild misunderstanding.

[tabaqui]

Yeah - five words of overheard conversation and suddenly they're apart for two years. Kind of....over the top.
:)

[eac.livejournal.com]

My *first* impulse would be to confront them, find out the whole story, and *then* decide on what to do.

...But you're not 15, right? I like my angst-y stories, but there are limits. :)

[tabaqui]

Heeeeeeee!
Weeeeeeeell...no. Haven't been fifteen for a *long* time.
But then, i was persistent as a badger as a kid, too. So i guess i'm just a *freak of nature*!!
:)

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

OMG! *SUCH* a spoilsport--and not just because you've described any story I've ever told in like--ever...

you have a beautiful child BTW, Mizz SPOILSPORT.

but seriously, yes, when you read them back to back, they get kind of...mmm. Sticky? Treacly? As in, you'd better have a great hook or I'm going to have to pass on this? And I say this knowing full well you know how much I love the angst. ;)

[tabaqui]

I know i know! I am evol and horrible!!!
*dances around*

Thank you, bay-bee! I think she's pretty stunning, myself. :)

And i say, nothing wrong with angst! But i don't want Angst in a Can! Don't whip out that trite, tired plot-point and expect me to *believe* it!
*twirls you*

[spinfrog.livejournal.com]

Long time ago, I was in a library and looking for a chaptered work of fiction that was published in this literary magazine.. I was looking through different issues, trying to figure out when the story I wanted was first published, and I accidentally started reading something else. And I could not stop. And there was no deep dark pasts or secrets or break-ups or anything. It was just about fishing or hunting or something. It was so totally mundane and I remember thinking that I should be bored. It was extremely detailed and completely prosaic, not a poetic turn of phrase in sight, but reading it was like living through it. It was intense.. All that just to say that yes, the story CAN be just about two people hanging out and doing mundane stuff, if one if a good enough writer and willing to describe littlest details and make things real.

[tabaqui]

Oh, i've read things like that, too, yes. It *is* all down to the author and the execution, that's so. As for my own original fic....i'm not sure i'm *there* yet, hehe, for them to just hang out, so i'd better think of *something* or i'll never get this thing done!
:)

[lomer.livejournal.com]

I like that your desktop is mildly creepy. (Just because old photos of kids are alway a little creepy.)

And you're not the only one who would confront the OTL instead of disappearing in a pool of angst until the problem seems unsolvable. Honestly, there are enough hiccups in love without contriving a huge breakup for a few months just because they don't talk. And if you wanted to be a HUGE spoil sport, you could always point out that sometimes when people are really in love and they break up... when they decide to give it another chance a year later, they remember WHY they broke up to begin with. That's sometimes an unfortunate reality. "I love you, and I will always love you. But I can't see us getting married and having children, so I need to say goodbye." Sometimes THAT'S the ending to an epic love story.

[tabaqui]

Heeeeeee!
That's my very own Monstrous Bebe!
But yes, those photos *are* deliciously creepy. :)

And, to me, if you really, really, *really* love this person so madly and passionately and whatnot...well, you give them the benefit of the doubt. Several times over.

Unless it *is* all just mad passion, in which case write a PWP. :)

[carnadosa.livejournal.com]

While I often want to smack people around in that kind of plot line, I only hate it when the misunderstanding results in the other person going out and screwing around. Because that's a mature, logical way to deal with a communication problem. I get the revenge thing, but maybe you want to make sure there's something you need to be getting revenge for first? It's not something I would ever do, and it seems like a completely stupid way to resolve anything. Also, cheating is pretty much my bullet proof squick, however I think my point remains!

And in the end, if you can't talk it out? Then there's no way that relationship will actually work any better days/months/years from now. Because shit's not going to stop raining down.

[tabaqui]

Oh, dude. Don't even get me started. *Any* kind of revenge, to me, is idiotic and immature. I mean, i get the impulse, sure, but you're pissed at your boyfriend, so you go home and throw all his clothes into the street? Please. That's just...

Well, that's too Jerry Springer for words, and i at *least* strive to be the person who's above that sort of thing. Sure, it might *feel* great, but in the end it only drives a wedge further between you.

And yes, exactly - if talking can't happen, the 'ship isn't gonna happen. Pure and simple.

[trepkos.livejournal.com]

It annoys me in fic but I think it annoys me even more in films or TV series, where someone's partner will sooner believe something they read in the papers than give their partner at least the benefit of the doubt until they've spoken to them.

[tabaqui]

OMG!! That's the dumbest thing *ever*. Sheesh. I have *never* liked that kind of crap. At all. Or the sudden 180 - oh, by the way! Soul mate told me that he actually hates you, he's just pretending!! And the person is all...oh. Okay. *moves out*.

Um, what? You really, truly, wouldn't go *confront* soul mate on a statement like that?
*boggles*

[sweptawaybayou.livejournal.com]

*nodsnodsnodsnodsnods*

I would have more to say about that and I might later, cuz right now I'm still asleep, drinking coffee and going to make the donuts.

*yawns*
**luffs**
*smooch*

[tabaqui]

Doughnuts!!!
*bounce*

I want blueberry cake*
*smoochy smooch*

[cellia.livejournal.com]

Man, that plot line annoyed me when I was a teen reading crappy romance novels (and still does as an adult... also reading crappy romance novels... and big bang stories :D).

I am a big proponent of "a good author can make me believe anything," but it can be hard to root for a couple when I mainly want to roll my eyes at them. Very tough arc to do well, imho, as it's been done so badly, and most couples in this day and age have no reason to not talk to each other (unlike, say, a het regency period piece where an unmarried man and woman might never have a moment alone, and there weren't cell phones and such.)

[tabaqui]

Heeeeee. Yes yes. I really can't enjoy a story when i just wanna smack 'our heroes' upside the head.

Those 'old time' couples, though - they got pretty tricky in their efforts to communicate! Have to admire the wit and sneakiness. I've always disliked the kind of 'manners won't let me say this' kind of story, wherein not saying five words pretty much ends everything. It just seems that sometimes, you can *ignore* manners.

Martyrs don't interest me.

[missus-grace.livejournal.com]

You're not alone. If a fic is particularly angsty, I might have to leave it until the author finishes it so I can just read the ending :)

I tend to think much of that kind of thing is written by younger people who haven't been in a serious long-term relationship and have no idea how partners really communicate. whenbuffysmiles teased us with the opening chapter to a Buffy AU where she is in her 40s and I was saying, "Yes! More! Finally a woman I can relate to!"

[tabaqui]

Wheeeeee! Yes. I get that feeling sometimes, too, trolling around in fandom and reading. It's a sort of - omg, *every single person* is younger than me!! feeling. Heh.

[ninhursag.livejournal.com]

Hmm... well, I do like angst and drama a lot, but I have a preference for it coming in from an outside source. If the couple managed to generate drama without anything significant causing it or blow out misunderstanding over nothing I shift right over into "hey, these people need to break up!" mode. I need to believe the true love I'm told is out there is really, genuinely true to get into a romantic story.

I think part of the problem is that a lot of the current crop of Big Bangs have some serious padding issues. Like, the author decided they needed to kill 10,000 words with a soap opera plot or something.

[tabaqui]

Yeah, outside source is generally more interesting to me, too. A sort of 'test', as it were, to see if they can actually deal with pressure and conflict, and also a way for them to become closer as they stand shoulder to shoulder against whatever adversity.

Gimme good case fic! :)

I try never to write to word count, even though i know that's a big part of big bang. It can really make you go squirrely.

Big Bang rec

[iyalode.livejournal.com]

Hon, I've just this minute finished read Stuck On Delete by matchstickmen.

Go read. Because it will renew your faith and you'll find of the above issues there, and it's freaking glorious.

Re: Big Bang rec

[tabaqui]

*bookmarks*

Thank you, bay-bee. I trust the source. :)

[texanfan.livejournal.com]

Stories have to have conflict of some kind. This can be internal or external or some combination of both. What you're describing in internal conflict, not unlike s6 of Buffy. My preference is external conflict. You may certainly have Tod and London hang out and be in love but that means something has to come in and mess with them. You know all this already, so actually, I'm just agreeing with your rant. :)

The girl in the pictures reminds me of Summer Galu in some undefinable way.

[tabaqui]

Oh, yeah, i know there should, probably, be some kind of conflict but man, coming up with something that's not contrived? Very hard. There will be *no* 'deep dark secret! from his past!' in this story - i hate that. No hidden love-child, no crazy aunt in the attic, whatever. And forcing them to be at odds and 'break up' is simply not going to happen, either. It doesn't *work*. They love each other, even if Tod has a hard time with it. He's not gonna just...abandon it all. Heh.

You are *not* the first person to compare the Monstrous Bebe to Ms. Glau. I think it's her hair.
:)

[entrenous88.livejournal.com]

Meh, I know exactly what you mean. I think that the first part of the equation in this instance predicts the second; that is, these are all Big Bang fics that have to be long, and the only way some authors see their way round to writing longer stories is to insert conflict that makes little narrative sense. I find it tiresome, though, trying to read a long fic and thinking, "Oh, just break up already, then," or rolling my eyes at the nonsensical and/or elaborate ruses to make the story go another few thousand words/more chapters.

[tabaqui]

Yeah. Maybe it *is* the word count, i dunno. And i *have* read some lovely, lovely stories. And the ones that had this plot point weren't *bad* at all. I just get tired of it, because...well...see above.
:)

Eh. Maybe i'm just a grouchy old woman. Shut up and enjoy the pretteh, you old coot!
:)

[seascribe.livejournal.com]

I like stories like that, as long as they're well executed, so, I don't really have anything to contribute to the rant. Sorry. *g*

I agree with a couple of other people, the Bebe looks a lot like Summer Glau. Lovely picure.
Totally stealing that meme.

[tabaqui]

Heeee!
S'cool, we can't all be lofty intellectuals!
*snerk*

And thank you thank you! I think it's the Bebe's hair, really. Or forehead. Heeeee.

[bendtothesun.livejournal.com]

Completely agree. Stories like that tend to irk me because I'm ever so practical about relationships. My reasoning is that if you're doing that kind of stuff then you're not old enough or mature enough to be in a relationship. Part of the reason why when watching movies where the guy is practical and the girls are all like 'oh but that's not romantic' I get so frustrated. Romance isn't going to keep a relationship lasting for years. :p

Ooo, your desktop is so clean and lovely. I always manage to clutter my up and I'm usually to lazy to put it all away. XD

[tabaqui]

YES! Nothing wrong with practical. Scorching, omg-can't-get-enough!! sex isn't, actually, a good basis for a relationship and no, it will *not* see you through the next forty years.

Actual friendship, communication, and compromise *will*.

The 'not romantic!' people are dorks. :)

I like an uncluttered desktop. Makes me happy.

[spikestress.livejournal.com]

Don't think I don't spy that word document titled "aftermath" down there on your tool bar.

*waits with nail biting and gnashing of teeth for next PTSD!Dean story*

OH! and if you'd like some drama to maybe get the creative juices flowing, I suggest maybe watching some reality drama like A&E's Intervention if you can get it. Some of those stories are just plain heartbreaking.

[tabaqui]

Ah ha ha ha ha!
:)

I'm working on, yes yes!
Soooooooooon!

I've watched that show a couple of times and frankly, i mostly end up wanting to smack every single person upside the head and yell 'are you freakin' nuts!!'

Not exactly helpful, i know, but dear gods. All that drama-rama makes me pissed off and snippy.

[yourlibrarian]

It's definitely tiresome in fanfic, but it's even worse when it's on TV and films, people doing things for pointless reasons just to get the plot going in the direction that the writer wants. I mean, how many horror movies could even exist without someone being stupid and wandering off? I would definitely prefer that if internal conflict is going to drive a storyline that it be over something meaningful and something that doesn't just go away but has to be negotiated and lived with because that's what really happens.

[tabaqui]

OH, i would too. And i would much prefer horror movies where the characters are *smart* and tough and the monster gets to 'em *anyway*. Let's make a *smart* monster!

Bah. Romantic comedy movies usually bore me to tears or make me wanna hit people, and 'chick lit' makes me gag.

Guess i better get crakin' on my own books. :)

[rahmi.livejournal.com]

Why do you think I don't write long fic? Or much fic for that matter. I have a tendency to make my characters just loll around happily with the occaisional personal angst coming up for the other character to help them through. There is no giant misunderstandings. There are no deep dark past stuff coming up to tear them apart.

They just. Um. Sit around and hold hands all day.

I AM A BAD STORYTELLER.

*pet pet pet*

Who are Tod and London?

[tabaqui]

*snickers madly*

But what you do write is lovely, lovely stuff.

Tod and London are 'our heroes' in the original book i'm writing. Trying to write. It's very frustrating! Heh. But i'm likin' it.

[kaydee23.livejournal.com]

Those stories you describe seem *false* to me, but I'm not reading the big bang stories, so I may not agree with you if I did. Still, I will stop reading a fic if there's a falling out over something that should have been talked about it. It's forced drama.

I love that picture of your daughter. She's gorgeous.

[tabaqui]

Yeah, it's kind of 'angst-in-a-can'!! Instant angst! Just add water! I don't care for that much. Rape-fic, in my mind, how most people write it, is angst-in-a-can. Just a way for h/c and magikal!healing!buttsexx!
*gag*

And thank you.
:)