Flist Request, please please....

[tabaqui]

Okay. I'm writing a fic. *boggles the mind, i know* And in it, i need someone to read aloud. The reader, however, is dyslexic.

Now, i know that that is a touchy subject. And because it is, i want it to be right. I want the two or three sentences to sound like they actually would, and not like they would with me, the non-dyslexic person, making it up. I don't like the thought, and i think it would be insulting.

I really hope that someone out there can help me with this. I really hope this isn't an offensive request.

Look behind the cut for the actual passage.
Thanks, anybody and everybody.



Chorus: Why do you cry out thus, unless at some vision of horror?

Cassandra: The house reeks of death and dripping blood.

Chorus: How so? 'Tis but the odor of the altar sacrifice.

Cassandra: The stench is like a breath from the tomb.

Aeschylus, Agamemnon

The primroses were over. Toward the edge of the wood, where the ground became open and sloped down to an old fence and a brambly ditch beyond, only a few fading patches of pale yellow still showed among the dog's mercury and oak-tree roots. On the other side of the fence, the upper part of the field was full of rabbit holes.


The person reading is angry, nervous, and afraid - does NOT want to read and is being yelled at. If that makes a difference.

Comments

[cleeaz.livejournal.com]

Daughter Katie (aka Katiedid, cause Katie usually did it) - is dyslexic - most the problem is that she constantly loses her place and can't read the entire sentence, but usually a single word at a time, then she has to process those words to make them make any sense in a sentence. So it would be

the
stench
is
like
a
breath
from
the
tomb

?? what - brief pause then re-reading to herself. She basically has to take it apart word by word then put it back together. This makes reading slow and agonising for her. She does much better with large print (although vision isn't the problem) and using a guide (she uses her bookmark). This keeps her on the write sentence without being distracted. Think about how you or I read - we usually see and read the entire sentence in one go - basically absorbing the information with out breaking it down word for word. This makes us fast reader and fast writers.

Hope this helps - Cindy Lee

[tabaqui]

Oh, you mean - you don't affectionately call her a bug?
*snerk*

Okay...this does help but...
Everything i've read online says there is letter switching and word confusion - was for saw, that sort of thing. Does she do that, as well?

[cleeaz.livejournal.com]

Yes, this is why she concentrates on reading one word at a time - the letter switching / number switching happens more when she's writing than when she reading - although she may read one as none, or on. Clee

[tabaqui]

Ahhh.... Interesting.
K.
:)
Thanks, bay-bee!

[tabaqui]

And also ment to say - thank you thank you, i appreciate you saying something.
:)

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

What Cindy Lee says is very good; also, it's likely that the further the reader gets, the more s/he will be guessing about unusual words, or substituting close approximations for multisyllabic words (slipped for sloped). If it were me I'd likely, also, be substituting opposites by the time I was at the last paragraph, or inverting sentence order.

The real dyslectic thing is to start out OK and then have reading ability deteriorate throughout the passage, as anger and fear increase.

Julia, not dyslectic per se but with a "global perceptual disability"

[tabaqui]

Interesting.

In my head, i'm seeing this person trying to read to themself and getting frustrated - pacing and maybe muttering under their breath, mad at themselves. Then when being forced to read aloud being already really upset.

Now how would a non-sound-outable word like 'chorus' be handled? Skipped or mangled?

And *I* don't know how to pronounce 'Aexchylus' on a good day, so - skip?

Thanks, deari-o.

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

Guessed at- maybe church or charles- unless it's a word the person has memorized.

esk(e)lus- with the (e) being an unempasized short e. But it would be skipped, or guessed, probably starting with a long A or long E.

This would be a VERY frustrating passage to read aloud, because the hard stuff is all first, and by the time someone got to the easy, familiar words they'd be tied up in knots from the Greek drama.

Julia, it's the kind of thing that some people would be pushed to the point of acting out in anger

[tabaqui]

Which, let's face it, is EXACTLY where we're going.

And.
Ummm.
Dude. I seriously flunked all that 'English' stuff. What does a long a or e sound like? Ask? Eesk?
*grumble*
*don't even ASK me to diagram a sentence*

[outsideth3box.livejournal.com]

~~Purrrfickitty used to diagram sentences *for fun* in school~~

[tabaqui]

*hates you*

It's all so POINTLESS!!!
I know how to write a correct sentence! I know what form of a word to use, what tense!
I just can't tell you WHY.
And diagraming?
Evol.

Freakishly Tickled

[outsideth3box.livejournal.com]

That you think so, LOL!!

I only know one other person who feels the way I do, the rest of the world seems to agree with you. Ah well.

BTW, does anyone else think this "Drabble Generator" everyone is playing with is just a digital version of "Mad Libs"? Or am I just waaaaaaaaaay scary older than I like to think about....?

Re: Freakishly Tickled

[tabaqui]

Ummmmmm.
What?
I avoid 'Mad Libs' and whatnot.
*we are not amused*

Prolly they know, but just don't care.
Or maybe, don't know and still don't care.

Dude - i can't DIAGRAM a SENTENCE.
What do *i* know?

Re: Freakishly Tickled

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

Make it two; I loved diagramming sentences, and also writing stuff in International Phonetic Alphabet, back when I was an Anthropology major at WSU.

Didn't make reading aloud any easier for me, was more like doing pencil mazes, which I also love.

Julia, weird hobbies, what can I say?

Re: Freakishly Tickled

[tabaqui]

*grumble*
Freaks.
IPA? Never heard of it.

But then...i DO avoid the dictionary because....on my way to looking up something i'll get sidetracked and a half hour later i'm six letters off my target going 'what the hell was i doing?'
Hehe.

Re: Freakishly Tickled

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

Weird getting here from The Sunnydale Herald (grumbles).

Dictionaries are tools of the devil, which is why I have nine assorted dictionaries, a Physician's Desk Reference, a 1957 set of Encyclopedia Brittanica and various field guides and anatomy books withiin easy reach (to the right; gardening references to the left). And I still sat here for fifteen minutes the other day trying to remember any word at all to express a concept...

Julia, when one is prone to aphasia, a large vocabulary is a crutch

Re: Freakishly Tickled

[tabaqui]

You did??
Hrmmmmmm.

Dictionaries ARE tools of the devil. But, you know...
*hides horns*

I love my atlases and my references and my...STUFF. I could sit and look through them all day, which is BAD. Very bad.

Aphasia. Had to look it up, of course, and the first bit sounds just like me - as does what you said. "Monstrous, will you hand me the...the..." *deep sigh* "That thing, there, the..." *Monstrous starts guessing words* "No, no, i need the...for the thing, the...SAUCEPAN! No, that's not right."

God, i do that ALL THE TIME. Hate that. Sit here and ask Cat 'What's that word that means you've started somethng over but no a new thing, the same thing only..." blah blah and then twenty minutes later it'll come to me. Grrrrrrrr.

I don't think i have any brain lesions though.
*who knows*

*pets you*

Re: Freakishly Tickled

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

I have gone whole years at a time not being able to put a name to William Shatner, which was embarrassing when the man in my life was (is) known as Mr. Space and is a life-long Trekker.

Not being able to formulate the word "exploit" when I was a student at Evergreen was inconvenient, too.

It's either the repeated high fevers or the several major head injuries, probably both. Neither of my kids have the problem, luckily.

Julia, wondering what a clone without my history of head trauma would be like

Re: Freakishly Tickled

[tabaqui]

HAAAA!
Well, you know, William Shatner.
Not exactly a loss.
*hee*

Hrmmmmm...clones...interesting. I wonder...
*wanders off*

You should read C.J. Cherryh's 'Cyteen' trilogy. Cloning, mental 'structuring' and...all sorts of skeery, freaky, shivery stuff. She's such an excellent writer and her take on all that just...
Well, something for you to read, or not, for yourself.
:)

[julia-here.livejournal.com]

Goes to show you just how much grades mean..

Aeschylus: E as in end, SK (e) like the second e in even, lus like lust :-)

Agamemnon is pronounced like it's spelled, but a dyslectic person would get wigged by the multiple m and n sounds.

I basically flunked every class in 10th and 11th grade but then got somewhat pulled out of the depression and did well as a senior. School sucked.

Julia, my kids like it; I think they're weird

[tabaqui]

Yup.
Reet, got it.
:)

I really enjoyed school but was bored a LOT. Got a's and b's without studying because i a) got bored and read the book in class over and over and b) would re-write my notes so they were perfect.
Neurosis can be your friend.

'Course, by the time i was in my senior year i'd pretty much run out of 'academic' classes to take and had a half a year's worth of Senior Comp, Creative Writing, Drama, Art, French, and 'Individual Reading' *go to class, read, book report once ever two weeks*. I graduated in January. They don't let 'em do that anymore.

I desperately want Monstrous to love school, and go to college and get a really good job 'cause what if she's a bubble-head who gets married and preggers, not in that order?
I'll die.

[mirasol.livejournal.com]

Saw this earlier. Got my sister, who is dyslexic, to read it out loud. Pretty much a verbatim report of what she said.

Why do you cry at this unless it's at some vision of horror?

The house reeks of death and dripping blood.

How so? 'Tis... (muttered "yeah, it is") the odor of the altar sacrifice.

The stench is like a breath from the tomb.

Agamum...

The primroses were over towards the edge of the wood, where the ground becomes open and slipped down to an old fence and a bramble ditch beyond, only a few fading patches of pale yellow still shows among the dog's mercy and oak-tree roots. On the other side of the fence, the upper part of the field was full of rabbit holes.

She skipped over "Aeschylus". Missed it out completely, just like the "Chorus" and "Cassandra".

Thankfully through positive reinforcement she's a far more confident reader now than she was at school. You'd have a lot of pauses and probably more words missed out.

And yes, when she read the first bit she hit me.

[tabaqui]

Wheeeee!!
Thank you thank you thank you!
*bounce*
Just what i wanted!

And yeah, i'll be going for the more missed words thing, since we're dealing with somebody who's beyond pissed and upset and may have just got slapped.
So.
:)

*sorry she hit you. Tell her i said 'Bad! No cookies! And please tell her thank you so very much.*

[mirasol.livejournal.com]

She's okay about it. Just a gentle loving tap really. And an extra Xmas pressie as well.

[djinanna.livejournal.com]

One of my good friends on LJ is very dyslexic. She's also a librarian. At a university. ::boggles:: And quite good at her job, too. (Dyslexics of the world, take heart!)

Anyway, my contribution to your info-quest ... from what I've seen with her, emotional states very much affect her. (I always know when she's upset or really tired by the way the typos increase in her journal -- I know that's true of everybody, but it's to such a striking degree that another friend once asked me if there were two different people posting to that journal!)

[tabaqui]

Thanks, bay-bee!
Every little bit helps, and yeah, i'm going with a very upset reader here.

Lovely!

[smashsc.livejournal.com]

wandering in from su_herald.

How old is the speaker? I'm 25 and dyslexic. The words in this are words I a familiar with and I didn't drop any words. I stuttered a few words though. unless at was unleat and "few fading" made me stutter and stop and start again.

However, I've got lots of years of learning to cover under me and read it aloud in my own apartment with no audience. Had there been someone in the room I might/proally would have have had much more trouble. And if I had been asked to read this when I was younger I would have gone painfully slow, one word at time and tried to read a word ahead while reading slow. Even then I'm sure I would have had to double back and pick up or correct words.

That is all not to say that because I'm older I don't have any problems. I'm still horrid at confusing letters/words while writing. And last night I was at meeting where we were reading aloud and the person leading pointed at be to go next and I signaled back to her that I can't read and speak. And she went on to the next person. The difference between being older and younger is that reading aloud is all voluntary now. And just he act of being voluntary makes it less stressful (and I read better) and if I don't want to read I don't have to.

Eek, I'm not sure what I just wrote is heldful to you at all. Hope so, though.

[tabaqui]

No no, everything helps. The reader would be about...22, i guess. And yes, under much more stress - being yelled at.

Gah! I hope this isn't becoming a ...thing! I just want to write the part, which is a SMALL part RIGHT. Ack.
:)

Thanks for your help - i appreciate that you took the time!

[smashsc.livejournal.com]

No problem it is interesting to think about how I read and speak.

Under stress that selection would give me complete fits.

[tabaqui]

That seems to be the general consensus. GAH.
I'm so paranoid now.
*bites nails*

Ah well, we'll see how it turns out.

[kk-d.livejournal.com]

see it's a little different for me, i'm both dyslexic and ADD, so i'll read out loud something like "The primroses were open" because my mind is moving faster that my mouth.
the switching of letters and stuff is more in the writing than the reading; kind becomes king etc.

anyway, not offended at all.

*hugs*

Kk

[kk-d.livejournal.com]

I also didn't really have trouble with some bits that other dyslexics might have because i was familiar with the words, chorus i know from being in a choir for a long time, cassandra, agamemnon and aeschylus i didn't really have problems with because i've read a lot about the trojan wars and also have read out bits of the Illiad in Ancient history.

I also didn't have a TV for 7 years at home and so became a big reader. This i taught myself to read better and faster and make less mistakes, part of the reasoning for that was frustration at not being able to do it.

However, if i'd been reading this in front of my drama teacher, who i don't like and who doesn't like me, i'd have to take two tries on aeschylus and other longer words, and i might skip sentences by accident due to losing my place. (in the same way as i mentioned in my last post)

I'm nearly 18 if that makes a difference

[tabaqui]

All good!
Everything helps.
Thanks!!

*making frantic notes*

[tabaqui]

Thank's for replying and i'm so glad you - and nobody else, apparently - were offended.
:)