A discussion of sorts....

[tabaqui]

Yesterday, reremouse and i posted part one of Drowning Not Waving.


pretties_4u had a comment that we decided would be better off discussed out of the community.

His comment is here, and it concernes graphic depictions of sex that occur in the part one of the story. Please read, and reply if you feel moved to do so.




However unpopular this feedback may be, and expecting the worst in the interpretation of my comments, I have reached the point where I am unavoidably compelled to address these feelings I have regarding this story.

I've been enjoying the HBO series "Deadwood" quite a lot, especially now in the gritty third season. I was over at my dad's house visiting him the other day, and knowing he's a big fan of good western type movies, I inquired as to whether or not he had given "Deadwood" a watch at all. I was a little surprised at his response. He said that he had watched the first season, and while he had enjoyed the story and the characters very much, the extreme over abuse of vulgar language had made the show overall unbearable for him. Now don't get me wrong, dad's not a saint by any measure, I've heard some profanity out of him now and then myself. It surprised me to think that the language was *too strong* for my dad to be able to overlook it and enjoy the series.

It boils down to this, I guess - we all have our limits.

I have been reading over parts of this Reremouse/Tabaqui work, Daddy!Xander, though admittadly not in it's entirety. I try to read a lot of what Tabaqui writes, some is down my alley, some isn't. I read the things I enjoy, but I mostly skim the ones I find myself not enjoying.

I am put off by the graphic, explicit, blow by blow usage of sex in this story. I'm not an old prude, and certainly not in any way a homophobe... I have seen some wonderfully written stuff that alludes to the man sex, love, relationships of all types. I'm fine with it! Usually!

There is a point, though, like my father and the vulgar language in "Deadwood" - the line is crossed and for me the pornographic content becomes overbearing, seemingly gratuitous and much like "masturbation" by the authors, exhibitionists performing their never-to-really-be-lived kinks out on all Joss's children.

This story, especially this chapter, has become just that in my eyes.

I would like to ask the author's of this story to step up and address this issue. To explain to me the need to go to such lengths, to move beyond a good "pay TV adult rating" where we get a little mild sex to season the story (ala QAF, Six Feet Under, etc...) To delve into overly detailed ponographic sessions like this.

Do you the authors feel like your story can't bear the weight, have enough "plot substance" to carry it's weight without so much excruciatingly detailed sex fic? Do you write hardcore porn into your story to appeal to the reader's lust for porn, or is it more along the lines of Mary Sue'ing without literally putting your own selves into the tale? Do you have the need to describe the size of Xander's cock, for example, or the need to tell me the reader that Xander's balls "twitched"? (Incidentally, I always get a good chuckle out of twitching cocks and balls. Women writers always over-twitch our parts.)

It was necessary for some reason to make Xander a porn industry whore in this story. Further though, it seems also necessary to detail the in close and graphic matter that this is tied to. Why? Must it be so graphic and juicy? For what reason is it so, because the point couldn't have been made clear in the reader's mind without including Xander wiping come off of his chest and face? Is it *necessary*, or is it merely self indulgence on the part of the authors?

I believe both of these writers to be GOOD writers, with the ability to write strong and sturdy tales.
I find myself most dissapointed in the extreme use of porn in the telling of this tale. It crosses the line for me, and makes the whole of it unenjoyable.
We all must tell our tales, in one way or the other - I only bothered to spend a half hour of my life to write this response in order to ask WHY. Why the need for such strong and thick detail?

Thank you for considering my query, and thanks in advance for your explanation which I hope will follow.

regards,
-Cat



Read, discuss - reply! I know my flist is intelligent and has strong opinions - let's just keep it civil!
:)



ETA:This is the link to the post on the S'cubie board. Please heed julia_here and what she says about the purpose of the board.
It's down near the very bottom. S'cubie.

Comments

discussion

[redrayne717.livejournal.com]

I'm writing my thoughts on this without having read the other replies to this post, simply so I can make sure my thoughts are my own on this.

I understand where Cat is coming from, and found myself nodding when he was talking about Deadwood and his Dad. I've tried watching Deadwood, but could not get past the language. I swear quite nicely in my own little world, but I don't believe that every sentence must have vulgarity. Deadwood was just too, TOO much for me.

I've also read fics where there is too much porn. While I enjoy porn as much as anyone, I don't need graphic sex scenes spread throughout 20 chapters. After the first few sex scenes, I find myself rolling my eyes, and skipping over them to get back to the story.

As far as this particular fic, I was not offended by the porn in this chapter. I think it did further the story, maybe not so much furthering the plot, but definitely giving me a true feel for the life of Xander Harris. That his time at "work" is his time to escape from his real life and baby is just sad. This fic has such a gritty, seedy feel to it, that I think the porn scenes fit in just right. I feel a deeper understanding of this character, than I think I would have if it were glossed over.

That being said, I don't necessarily think there needs to be a dozen more of those scenes to get the point across. As a reader, I got it.

Hope this hasn't offended anyone, and I am eager to read other's responses. Thank you for opening up this discussion!

Re: discussion

[tabaqui]

There can *always* be too much, yeah. But Rere and i are confident that we've balanced sex with plot and emotion in just the right amounts.

I'm glad you joined in!
:)