Something else that doesn't happen here too often....

[tabaqui]

An episode review! Or something. A little bit ranty.

BUT.

Before you scroll away, let me be 100 percent clear. I LOVED THIS. The finale? Rocked.




I'm not always very good on the thinky thoughts. In fact, i tend to ramble and get a little incoherent, so i'm going to direct you to a couple places that said what i *want* to say, only much, much better.

First is from bree_black, The Epic Love Story of Sam and Dean. All i can say is 'hell fucking yes'.

The second is courtesy of tahirire, and she says it like it is. Possibly a little ranty, but i agree! So much. :)

And last but not least - my take on something i've seen around my flist ever since Show got started. People saying 'Kripke isn't Joss!' Meaning - Kripke isn't *as good as* Joss, Show is not as good as Buffy. Know what i say?

Thank fuck. Buffy? Is awesome. Always will be. But i got sick to death of Joss' issues being passed off as feminist story-telling. We all take different things from shows because of who we are and how we are and where we are but...let me, again, be clear: I don't want Joss anywhere near my boys.

If this sounds combative and mean, well...i'm sorry. But i'm tired of the undercurrent that Show is somehow a pale *imitation* of Buffy, that Kripke is secretly wishing he were Joss and that the whole thing would be so much better if only Sam were a real girl. Or something. Rarr. I love Buffy, i had a blast in that fandom, and it's not unimaginable to think i'll revisit from time to time. But Show? Is not Buffy. And i. Like it that way.

Sorry, flist, i'm just cranky. Anyway - hope you enjoy the links. The meta there is actually well written and interesting, unlike this. :)

Comments

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're being cranky. Buffy and Supernatural are two seperate shows. One isn't better than the other; they're both good (and a little bad) in their own right.

[tabaqui]

Yup. And i don't get why it's fun to tear down Show by making snarky 'Joss did it so much better!' comments.

How about discuss Show on its own merits?

Bleh.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Exactly.

I get so sick of the 'Joss is God' and/or 'Joss is my master' crap too. *rolls eyes*

[tabaqui]

OH, man. Me too. I'm glad you like Joss! Yay! I like him to, in a guarded kinda 'ex of my sister who's okay but i know a couple yucky secrets' way.

But he's *not* god, and he's not the ultimate storyteller out there. I won't say Kripke is, either, that would be silly. But sheesh - let it go.

Something else that doesn't happen here too often....

[bendtothesun.livejournal.com]

sam was a real girl

Oh please tell me that this isn`t a sentiment in parts of fandom, that sam expressing emtion etc makes him a girl because if so the whole ideology behind that is faily rage. Ugh.

Yeah totally agreed on the Joss thing. I`ve never really understood the comparisions between Buffy and SPN other than they`re both urban fantasy. Which... okay then *rolls eyes*

<3
(sorry for any mistakes, I`m on my phone)

Re: Something else that doesn't happen here too often....

[tabaqui]

Heeeeee. I can't imagine typing on a *phone*.

No one has said, no, that Sam should be a 'real girl', but i get the feeling that some people wish the hero of the story would be something a lot more along the lines of Buffy. Or maybe Angel.

I never got the impulse to compare, either, as far as arc and characters. There are so many differences, and the similarities are so very shallow.

Something else that doesn't happen here too often....

[bendtothesun.livejournal.com]

(dude sorry if this is in the wrong place mobile lj is a tad confusing and if it`s wrong sorry for the thread spam!)

Heh! It`s not that bad (sorta i keep deleting comments on accident and having to retype them argh!) but i do what i must when i go to land of no internet!

Oh good, my faith in people is slightly restored! However you must be hanging out with better people than i am, i usually get sam isn`t a hero vibe. Because you know dean is always right and sam just needs to shut up and take it *rolls eyes* Hmm if i wanted to to watch a hero like angel or buffy i`d watch... angel or buffy!

Yeah, it`s basically called fiction has similar themes and characters especially within the same genre. welcome to fiction, you may like it her. ;) Oh but what do I know? I`m one of those bad fans who *liked* season five of angel.

Re: Something else that doesn't happen here too often....

[tabaqui]

Hehe. I only make calls on my phone. I resist all upgrades! :)

Wow. Sam not a hero? Hello? What show are they watching? Sheesh.

Hey, i liked season five of Angel, too. Just hated season four.
*i need feral!Connor in my life, but not the rest....*

[andreth47.livejournal.com]

Ah, those two posts are marvellous. I love tahirire's. Snarky, but yeah. We win, so...we win. ;D

I'm with you about Joss and his feminism and his issues and keeping his mitts/influence off our boys. This show is so different from Buffy, I don't understand why people even make comparisons. Apples and oranges.

[tabaqui]

We do win! Wheeeee!
:)

Exactly. They are *not the same*, and Kripke for sure wasn't and isn't trying to recreate Buffy. So let's just let that go, shall we?
*twirls*

[minim_calibre]

Preach it on the Joss!

(No, I don't think upping the body count is always a brave narrative choice. In fact, thanks to Joss, I file it under "often a cheap narrative cheat!" Among other things.)

I mean, Buffy? Still my girl, always. Joss? Not god, don't trust him as far as I can through him.

[tabaqui]

Yup. Dead /= meaningful. Sometimes it just means *dead*. And when your actors say they won't come back, well...you're kinda doing it wrong.

Buffy rocks. The sporadic news i hear of the comic makes me cringe. I live in my happy world of seasons 1-5, with teeny bits of six and practically nothing of seven at all.

[dancetomato.livejournal.com]

You are awesome and I &hearts you so much.

[tabaqui]

Heeee!
*smooch*

[sylvanwitch]

First, thanks so much for the awesome links. I've been all avoidy of ep reactions except from people I know because I loved the ep and I just don't want to hear the wank, you know? But these were awesome!

Second, I was and am a HUGE Buffy fan and until right now it's never even occurred to me to compare the two. I had no idea that people out there were holding on to that idea. I don't see it and I never have, and I love Supernatural for everything it is. Anyway, just wanted to say you aren't alone in that.

[tabaqui]

I've been disappointed in some reaction posts, too, so it was awesome to find these gems. I had to share!

And yes - Buffy rocked, and is *Buffy* - they are not the same!

[tahirire.livejournal.com]

LOL. Yes, I would say I was a LOT ranty, but hey. Sometimes I just get tired of it and whip out the baseball bat. ;) Thanks for the rec!

[tabaqui]

Heeee.
But it was good, cathartic ranty! Which i, for one, really needed. :)

[txrabbit.livejournal.com]

I've always wondered about the comparisons between Buffy and Show. I've never understood it. I loved Buffy and I love Supernatural. Two different things.

Now off to read the metas!

[tabaqui]

It's so baffling!
Enjoy!

[ruthless1.livejournal.com]

Both great links! And I liked the positivity of both of them. I think Kripke did a very nice job of wrapping up the season. And I have no problems with his little self insertion (breaking up with fandom indeed! Who wouldn't? We ARE kind of crazy!) And I thought that this episode showed the strengths of both Sam and Dean in equal parts. And truly - for this ep - their hotness was secondary because I was so into the story. I will have to rewatch 22 just for the hotness factor!

And truly apples and oranges. All I can think is that people compare them because of the supernatural element but come on - that is a bit much. Female superhero - two incestuous brothers? I am seeing a world of difference there.

I am going to spend the summer rewatching seasons 1-4. And trying not to be too squeamish about it. That's the only thing I don't like about the show - the gore factor (cheesy as it is) is a bit much for my very delicate sensibilities. *bats delicate sensitive eyelashes*

[tabaqui]

Yes, i'm very tired of negative reviews, negative recaps, all of it. Let's *enjoy* our awesome Show! And i don't think Kripke broke up with us - i think he just said he wants to be friends, okay? :)

I never got the comparisons, either. They're just...not the same.

Sometimes the gore is a little icky for me, too. But i persevere.
*waves hankie*

[realtsunamigirl.livejournal.com]

Amen, my friend!

I love me some Joss, but that doesn't mean that everyone has to be like him/him. He goes around recommending shows all the time; he called Veronica Mars the best show on TV, so obviously he thinks there are other people doing things right.

Just because I like sushi, doesn't mean I don't like fettuccine Alfredo as well.

[tabaqui]

Exactly! If every show were a Joss show, i'm afraid i would be a bit bored.

Tomato, linguine - we can like them all! :)

[roxymissrose.livejournal.com]

I hear you. And I'm not saying a word...*G*

What the two shows share in my opinion, is that both shows loved their people, both shows were gangs of fun when they wanted to be, and heartbreaking when they wanted to be. They both had a unique language and way of communicating. They both kicked serious ass. But no way is Show a pale imitation of Buffy, no way Kripke wants to be Joss.

Besides Buffy never died as many times as Sam! *runs and hides*

[tabaqui]

BWAAAAAAAAAAHahhahhaaahha. Exactly.

And you hit the nail on the head, Miss Rose. :)

[thenyxie.livejournal.com]

I used to think Buffy would always be my favorite show, and it IS, but so is this one. In an entirely different way and for entirely different reasons, which is why I can legally call them both my favorites ;) The only similarity IMO is that they're both horror/drama series with clear heroes and villains. And that a lot of Buffy fans went from Buffy fandom to SPN--I think that's the main reason it gets compared. I love Joss, I really do, but I don't want him anywhere near the boys either. I love them the way they are.

[tabaqui]

THIS.

You can like both! You don't have to choose! :)

And yes - Joss would just do irreparable harm to the boys. Anyone who can make me hate *every single character* (by the end of season seven) really needs to say faaaaaar away from Show.

[iyalode.livejournal.com]

Loved the finale, really loved it. I went in unspoiled, there were some surprises and I will forever love this episode for Metallicar montage alone:)

Joss gave us Xander & Spike. I will be forever grateful for that but dude, his issues would fuck the boys up in way I cannot imagine. Different creators, different shows. Seriously, I don't it, what's there to debate?

[tabaqui]

YES!
I was unspoiled, too, and omg, just....
BOYS. In the car. Carving their initials, playing, living. WATCHING THE STARS TOGETHER. Jayzus, just...how much more clear could it be? They love each other, and that is all.
*sniffle*

No debate in my mind. I guess people might be unhappy about Buffy being 'abandoned' for Show, but i say - you can still love both! I certainly will never stop liking Xander and Spike and Cordy and Tara just 'cause of Boys.

[mimblexwimble.livejournal.com]

You're not cranky! You're just sane. *hugs*

[tabaqui]

Heeee.
Yay!
:)

[gypsy-atavari.livejournal.com]

I'm with you! I love our boys - warts and all. :-)

[tabaqui]

Yes!
They'd be boring if they were perfect. :)

[emeraldsedai.livejournal.com]

I can't see any point in comparing Kripke to Joss or SPN to Buffy. That's just silly.

But I have no problem with observing that Joss and his staff were, on the whole, far better writers than those working on SPN, that Buffy was a better written show with more attention to its own canon than SPN has been in the last at least two seasons, and that it would have been nice to see more cohesive writing.

Jared and Jensen have, though sheer goddamn outstandingness, sold a great deal of mediocre writing as great drama. It's why I watch the show.

I guess what I'm saying is that for myself, anyway, any tendency to look back to Joss's oeuvre while watching SPN comes from the frustrated feeling that a story I love and a fandom that's a big part of my life could have been--really deserved to be--founded on better-written material, and when I think of good writing of fannish tv shows, Joss is one of the first names I think of.

[tabaqui]

And, see, i totally disagree. Joss had some neat ideas and he took his show some cool places, but i have no issues with the overall story and 'telling' of Show.

Kripke has dome some very cool things, as well, and given me characters that i identify with a whole lot more than 'going broke' Buffy who still had more coats and shoes than my whole family.

I don't wanna sit and compare plot holes and inconsistencies - gods knows every show has 'em - but i find a lot more to rant about when talking about, for instance, season six of Buffy or season four of Angel than i do any season of Show.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_beetle_/]

Not reading till I see the finale! La-la-la, I can't hear or see you, la-la-la!

[tabaqui]

Heee!
Go, watch! OMG!!!!
*flails*

[dana-aeryn.livejournal.com]

I don't think SPN is like Buffy. I loved Buffy to death and I love SPN just as much. I think Kripke is doing his own thing.

[tabaqui]

Exactly! And it's awesome!
:)